Thank you Claire and Kathryn for a great segment. Given that information has always been a matter of strategy do you feel the symbiotic relationship between government and the press still works today for the greater good or has the for-profit, readership side now overtaken any sense of responsibility for anything outside of the story itself? What does the "club" landscape look like now? I assume the white, male cabal just took up separate apartments deeper in the basement?

On the topic of "for-profit and readership," during a recent long road trip I decided to listen to the podcast "The Trojan Horse Affair" by The New York Times' Brian Reed and Hamza Syed. I am shocked by The New Times allowing this to air based on journalistic practices alone. The blowback was swift and most clearly expressed by writer Sonya Sodha in this piece in The Guardian:


This appears to be more prevalent today - or am I just not aware of the historical precedent for this too?

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I am so glad you liked it, Caroline. I don't know what Kathryn would say, but I would hazard a guess that strategic leaking has taken the place of the old-fashioned backgrounders, for two reasons. One is that the exclusiveness of the institutions Kathryn writes about fell apart, beginning in the 1970s, and that World War II generation of white men was gone, or receding into the background, by the 1980s. I think Kathryn's story is very specific to a moment in history. And second, I think Watergate created a new fetish around the investigative journalist who was inside the system--as opposed to the Izzy Stone or Sy Hersch, who was outside the system, either digging into public documents or hunting down sources who would spill the beans. As I understood it from my book research, after 1972, everyone wanted to be Woodward and Bernstein, and it really changed what editors were prepared to countenance.

As to the Trojan Horse affair, thanks fo rthe link--I'll look into it!

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I look forward to reading her book. It’s complicated for sure. The National Press Club held a white nationalist event as late as 2011!

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